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 Forums >>  Target Specific - General  >>  Reverser/Creator - Rules of Engagement

Topic created on: April 15, 2008 00:23 CDT by daniellewis .

Apparently the Eve Online client source code was released on a torrent by a frustrated reverser after confronting them about security holes and being basically told to screw off.  This has been slashdotted.

I think this makes it pretty evident that we need to establish some realistic rules of engagement regarding how to approach the content creator of a reversed software if the need arises.  I've personally come across this problem too, and I think we need to establish some understanding.  The simple fact is that most creators are zealously protective of their work and probably (incorrectly) think reverse engineering is illegal.

How do you approach someone with these feelings to tell them they have a security hole in their product, or they missed a key performance improvement?

To start by asserting you're not the enemy doesn't work because they typically panic with "reverser=enemy" and block out anything relevant you might say like "I'm not here to ask for anything, I just found something you should know about".  I know this from repeated experience.

So how?

  BegPardon     April 15, 2008 03:32.13 CDT
If for some reason you have decided to inform a vendor about a security vulnerability, the concept of "responsible disclosure" is well-established in 2008.  It doesn't always work out, but if you straightforwardly mail the technical details of the vulnerability to the vendor's security contact, they probably won't freak out and sue you in 2008.  If you're really concerned, mail anonymously at first or sell the information and let the middleman deal with it.

It's obvious where this guy went wrong (in the extremely boring transcript) -- he wasn't interested in disclosure at all (threatening and executing blackmail is not part of it).  He wanted to bloviate about his ability to run a python decompiler (if there was such a thing as "script kiddie reverse engineering", that would be it) and troll CCP with "your software is insecure, blah blah blah" for hours without getting into substantial technical details.  Conversely, the CCP guy's responses are reasonable, and in line with the previous paragraph:

"We are always working on improving security and plugging holes. If you want to help with that, try a normal approach like say sending us an email with suggestions."
"You know, if you want [bots] to stop you should let us know exactly how those bots function instead of threatening to leak source code."

Please elaborate on your repeated negative experiences during disclosure.

  daniellewis     April 16, 2008 02:20.55 CDT
Yeah okay.  I hadn't read the transcript, just someone's blog on it - obviously shameful.

I also haven't ever seen a document or link on responsible disclosure.  I usually just freelance reverse something that has my interest; and ocassionally see the need to say something.

The first case was some shareware where I found a major performance flaw that made the main functionality run just under 8 times faster (data writes on a code page flushing code cache).  I offered up the solution and got a prompt "thanks, but no thanks" response, not that I care.

The second and worst case was a chat with a content creator where I was told "we work to hard to deal with you and your kind here!  screw off!" between saying "reverse engineered your product and wanted to give you some help" and the technical details of the disclosure, and simply saying "fine then, you have a bunch of security vulnerabilities.  you figure it out if you don't want my help, jerk."  That was a matter of 15-30 seconds though, not hours.

The third case, the positive one, was a buffer overflow which I discovered, which got patched the next day with credit.

I'd like to say I would never sell knowledge of a vulnerability to someone other than the content creator.  That could be terribly abused.

I'll go through the transcript when I get home, because apparently my company's firewall is blocking it.

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