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 Forums >>  Brainstorms - General  >>  Orientation Questions

Topic created on: November 3, 2006 13:31 CST by remc .

Hello everyone,

I'm computer science student with a big interest in security research and thus registered to this forum. Currently I'm orientating myself in the field of security researching/consulting and have some questions that I would like to be answered by someone from the field. I hope you can help me out. Here are the questions:

-How does a common day at work looks like?
-How did you got interested in security research?
-How did you came in contact with your current employer.
-How did you learn to find security problems? Are you self taught or did you followed courses?
-How is the market for security researchers?
-I'm currently in my Bachelor phase and have to choose a Master soon, do you have any advise regarding a Master with respect to security research?
-What did you studied, and does it help you in your daily work?
-Do you have any other advise or tips to become a security researcher/consultant?

Many thanks,

Remco

  aeppert     November 3, 2006 14:06.16 CST

Common Day:
  Does not exist at least has never existed for me.  My routine is more typical - arrive at work, catch up as quickly as humanly possible on the goings on in the world of security (ie, read this site and a few others.)  Then, I start diving into work which generally lasts 8-9 hours.  I go home, repeat the process.

Interest:
  Well, that is a bit of a deep dark question, likely for a lot of us here.  I would say copy protections fascinated me along with my unfortunate inability to appropriately be allowed to utilize certain systems and we shall leave it at that.

Current employer:
  They found me.  The community is a bit interesting, at least in the US.  Once you work in it long enough, your name can become a bit of a business card in and of itself.  A solid reputation is worth its' weight in gold.

Learning:
   Self-taught which is to say I was motivated to learn by the information I found from others.  Some of it comes naturally, I would say a vast majority of the best folks in the security field (and frankly computer science / math / science / and engineering in general) have an uncanny ability with regards to patterns and the quick recognition of patterns.  Some folks can simply look at a data flow (say tcpdump) and notice something is amiss.

Market:
  Like any other market - it depends on your geographical location, skillset, and ability to sell yourself appropriately.  It is a niche market and as such is a close knit community, so it is not ripe with thousands of available positions.

Degree Seeking:
  I would say something in the arena of pattern recognition, machine learning, and or graph theory would all be immediately applicable to security in some form or fashion.  

My Degree:
   I hold a bachelors in computer science (with an effective  minor in mathematics as I am only a few classes short of a major - sadly time and money were just not there to allow me to complete it...) from a very well regarded and ultra-small university in the United States.  As with a lot of folks, I need to move my posterior and get a Masters degree sooner rather than later for my own edification.  I would say my studies help me a lot, but more often than not the handful of electrical engineering classes I managed to squeeze in help me more in my day-to-day routine than anything else, save mathematics.

Advice:  
  Sit back, read, learn.  The absolute only way to learn this field is to stop immediately and realize there is an untold amount of information you will just never know.  Accept that fact and then begin moving on with understanding all that crosses your path.  (Of course, I take the stance this is applicable to all careers!)  Read OpenRCE, read other forums, participate appropriately.  Security research is very much a respect driven field and again, your reputation means everything.  Above all, see if you enjoy the work, if you do not enjoy it, the hours of learning will be torture.

Hopefully this will help.  Of course, this is my small view of the world as I have seen it over the years.  There are a lot of other folks here with far more knowledge, years of experience than I and I for one am grateful for that fact as they provide me with an amazing resource to help further my knowledge of any given topic.

Aaron

  remc     November 4, 2006 11:39.39 CST
thanks for your reply Aaron

  pedram     November 5, 2006 01:53.40 CST
remc,

Very interesting post and well poised questions. Thank you.

> -How does a common day at work looks like?

I whole heartedly agree with Aaron on this one. Though there is of course a base line of work that gets at least some level of attention each day, every day is something new. Security researchers tend to love what they do and have a wide range of skills because of it. I find that the teams I have worked on tend to pick up a huge variety of tasks ranging from impromptu forensics to photoshop work.

> -How did you got interested in security research?

I was originally introduced to the computer 10 years ago and having been born and raised a sheisty New Yorker,  security immediately peaked my interested due to the possibility to pull pranks on friends ;-)

> -How did you came in contact with your current employer.

Friends. I imagine it's the same in every small industry, but especially in this one solid contacts can go a really long way.

> -How did you learn to find security problems? Are you self taught or did you followed courses?

The likely answer to this question from 95% of researchers is "self taught". Until relatively recently there was no security track at the university level, plethora of available books or popularity at BlackHat trainings. I believe the single greatest bug-hunting reference to be a detailed advisory and a copy of the vulnerable software.

> -How is the market for security researchers?

I can say with certainty (at least within the Unites States) that we are currently in an employees market. Everyone I know is looking for good talent and coming up short in the recruiting process. On a related note and also speaking from personal experience, hiring non-US citizens is unfortunately much more difficult then everyone wishes and many employers shy away from it.

> -I'm currently in my Bachelor phase and have to choose a Master soon, do you have any advise regarding a Master with respect to security research?
> -What did you studied, and does it help you in your daily work?

I have a bachelors in computer science (with minors in math and business) from the once-was Tulane engineering school (the engineering school has since been abolished by hurricane Katrina). If I could go back I'd pursue a hardware degree and pay more attention in my math classes. The bulk of what you learn in CS you can learn on your own with your own equipment. I don't feel that is the case with hardware where the equipment is more expensive and the information not quite as accessible or widespread. With regards to further education, I could be wrong as this is only my opinion, but I would take a job after your bachelors prior to continuing. The real world experience is valuable for one. Two, and perhaps more importantly, once you get settled into a job it's possible that your company will cover some tuition expenses towards a graduate degree.

> -Do you have any other advise or tips to become a security researcher/consultant?

Get an internship. Even if it pays little or nothing, getting your foot in the door of a security company will give you a strong feel for what the environment is like and most importantly provide you with friends and contacts that can help you when you get out of school. During my short 5 years in the industry I have seen over 50% of the interns that came through our offices end up with a full time job.

Hope some of that helps...

-pedram

  remc     November 7, 2006 04:33.28 CST
Thanks pedram. Your guys helped me a lot.

Again many thanks,

Remco

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